Welsh Industries of DeKalb, IL - Welshind.com. Read this before doing business with them.

[miljeep]

Short version: We were talking with the company about ordering patches. In order to get a proof done, we had to provide our credit card number. A few months later, without us approving the final order for the Military Jeepers patches, they went ahead and made them, charged our credit card for the purchase and sent them to our house. I was in Iraq at the time and my wife was trying to handle the issue while I was overseas so I would not have to worry about the problems she was having with the patch company. The guy knew he should not have done that and made a deal with my wife where we could send back the unsold patches for a refund. Well, that was a year ago and we sent back the patches, but never received our money. The company either does not answer our emails, or blows smoke up our arse as we try to close the loop on this. It has been over a year since they first sent the patches to us and has been just about a year since we sent them back for a refund and a refund of money for other patches they sent that we never wanted in the first place

There is an update posted 19 March, 2011 at the bottom of this post

Here is the long story...

Someone on Military Jeepers contacted a company about having patches made because people were asking about patches. After contact was made, since we (my wife and I) would be paying for the patches to be made, my wife picked up communication with the company. (I was in Iraq at the time).

In order for them to make a proof, we had to provide a credit card number. The understanding was that if we decided not to get the patches through them, they would charge the card a set amount for the material and labor it took to create the sample patch. I think that is fair because companies could lose a lot of money making sample for people that won't buy something through them.

Once I started to look into the patches more, I learned that the price they were going to charge per patch was a lot more than most other places online. I decided to work with other companies to see what they could do. Since I was doing this from Iraq with an inconsistant internet connection and a lot of time without an internet connection due to missions, this took a couple of months.

In January of 2010, while I was still overseas, my wife learned that the company had charged us for the full order of patches and had shipped them to our house. They made two sizes, a smaller patch and a six inch patch. We never wanted the six inch patch and that was something that the original person from MJ that contacted them had talked with them about. My wife made it very clear that we did not want a six inch patch.

My wife tried to handle this and leave me out of it so I was not worried about this while overseas. The owner sounded as if he knew that he messed up big time when she called. He told her that she could sell what she could sell and send back the rest of the patches for a refund, but she had to do so within 90 days. My wife sent the packages back and got signature confirmation. On March 09, 2010 the package with the unsold patches was sent with U.S. Postal Service Signature Confirmation included to the PO Box that she was told to send the patches back to. The package arrived to the post office on March 11, 2010, but the owner of the company failed to sign for the package until April 06, 2010. Signature confirmation from USPS is: 2308 3250 0000 2655 5659

After many attempts to reach the company via email, I was finally able to talk with the owner on the phone 13 September 2010. I just wanted to close the loop on this and agreed to a deal where they would refund the money for the 6 inch patches we never wanted and he would just return the unsold smaller patches. Well, that was about 8 months ago and we have yet to receive the refund and the patches.

I have tried to contact the company multiple times this past year, but I fear that he thinks that he can just walk all over us because we are a military family and will just "suck it up". This company has been horrible to deal with and I would not recommend anyone deal with them at all for fear that you will get the same treatment. The company owes us hundreds of dollars and product which they said they would return but never have. I have sent many many emails, most go unanswered or they tell us lies about how they have the packages ready to go, but cannot make it to the post office. We have even been told that they are having problems with their system for crediting our account the money owed.

If you know anyone that is looking for a company to produce patches, let them know about this company. If your jeep club is looking for patches, warn them of the issues we have been having. We have been fighting this battle for a year with zero success


The company information is:

Welsh Industries
Sales@welshind.com
2201 Sycamore Road, DeKalb, IL 60115
Phone 815-756-1111
Toll Free 1-888-WELSHIND
Fax 815-756-1224
Email sales@welshind.com



Most of our emails have been handled by Michael Welsh, but the last one I sent was answered by someone else at the company that said he would make sure Michael contacted me. Amazingly, Michael never got back with me.

I told them that I was going to post my review of their horrible service on the different review sites and they don't seem to worried about it. I really don't think they care, which to me means that they may have been doing this a while and have got comfortable with the way they screw people over.

If you are a company or organization that was considering Welsh Industries to make your patches, send an email to ryan@militaryjeepers.com and I will be happy to provide additional information about the way that they have treated us and discuss in more detail this issue. If you order through them and get screwed like we did, don't say we did not warn you.


Here is one of the emails I received from Welsh Industries. It is dated Oct 2010 and this post was added in March of 2011.

http://inlinethumb31.webshots.com/46302/2821550780102783595S600x600Q85.jpg

our last contact with them:

http://inlinethumb08.webshots.com/36423/2647204590102783595S600x600Q85.jpg
http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/46597/2266139490102783595S600x600Q85.jpg

Update 19 March, 2011

We arrived home after a few days of being away on vacation and we found that Welsh Industries had mailed the box of patches back to us. The printed USPS label on the package was dated Sept 21, 2010, which is about the time they said they were going to finally ship it out. I am guessing it just sat there even while we emailed them multiple times. So far, we have closed the loop on the patches and are waiting to see if a refund has been placed on our credit card. Thank you to all that have helped to increase the visibility on this situation.

[Mr.RonGilbert]

I will be happy to pitch in to help with the cost of the patches.

I will also be shooting them an email...

[ColoFreeJeeper]

I bought 8 of them originally and would like to buy more if there are any left.

[mdcmn7]

I foresee the MJ'rs filling this companies inbox with polite, yet direct email until they choose to correct the problem.

Actually, I see my sending this to all of my non MJ buddies who will also follow suit because it is pretty shitty when someone messes with a soldier, his family, and their bank account.

[mdcmn7]

Email Sent;

Mr Welsh,

It has come to my attention that the Military Jeepers organization has been working with you for some time to have some patches made for the group.

The purpose of this email is to inform you that your level of customer service in dealing with them is unacceptable. Your company made patches and charged a credit card when you were not authorized to do so. An agreement was made by your company and Military Jeepers to correct the mistake, and you have not yet accomplished your part of the agreement. You have been difficult to work with, ignored emails and not returned phone calls. You currently owe them both product and money.

This blatant disregard for customer service to anyone, let alone a soldier deployed overseas in support of your freedom, and his family, is abominable. It is also very likely illegal.

Unfortunately I don't live close enough to your company to discuss this matter in person.

However, I am a member of several organizations that will not be doing business with your company. I will ensure that every person I know will not be doing business with your company. I am also very involved in social media outlets such as facebook and twitter. I assure you that I am going to make every effort to ensure that everyone I can contact will not be doing business with your company

Charles Schnaubelt

[miljeep]

I sent them many emails telling them that I was going to warn others how they treated us and let them know how they conduct business. I really thought that they would move a little faster shipping out the patches and refunding the money, but they did not budge. I can just picture them sitting in their shop laughing at each email I sent them.

funny thing is less than 12 hours after posting this post on MJ, a search for "welsh industries" gets us on the first page of results in google.

[Mr.RonGilbert]

Edit: This company ****ed over MJ. Be forewarned


You reap what you sow Michael. Do the right thing.

[SavageSun4x4]

LOL, YOU HURT THEM...

So I decided to do a search on Welsh Industries of DeKalb, IL and this is the search results...looks like your post is a BIG NUMBER 4 of 112,000 results:



Welsh Industries Homepage (http://www.welshind.com/)

Welcome to the home of Welsh Industries, Ltd., makers of quality, American made embroidered ... 2201 Sycamore Road, DeKalb, IL 60115. Phone 815-756-1111 ...
www.welshind.com/ - Cached (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mAo8vluZ3vEJ:www.welshind.com/+Welsh+Industries+of+DeKalb,+IL&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com) - Similar (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B3GGGL_en___US244&q=related:www.welshind.com/+Welsh+Industries+of+DeKalb,+IL&tbo=1&sa=X&ei=FwF8Ta3BHMqJrQG-9PCEBg&ved=0CBsQHzAA)

►
http://www.google.com/maps/vt/data=LtgX-e3f8ctI3U5dJtbt7EJ1ZfRneYme,7R_GFGOpyBphim3eJ0T8Gq342eQT4ZCZwkraR2ybMSbArsI84bVxMFX4R3JdXcrc3gNlBUUbve9RCCX0QoNdmuzRSTr3T93z2fNCf36ngy1uAqCzeg (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=&rlz=1B3GGGL_en___US244&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=Welsh+Industries+of+DeKalb,+IL&fb=1&gl=us&hq=Welsh+Industries+of&hnear=DeKalb,+IL&cid=0,0,3038139094048154863&ei=FwF8Ta3BHMqJrQG-9PCEBg&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=2&ved=0CB0QnwIwAQ)
http://www.google.com/mapfiles/marker.pngWelsh Industries Ltd

Place page (http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=&rlz=1B3GGGL_en___US244&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=Welsh+Industries+of+DeKalb,+IL&fb=1&gl=us&hq=Welsh+Industries+of&hnear=DeKalb,+IL&cid=3038139094048154863)

1600 East Lincoln Highway
DeKalb, IL 60115-3905
(815) 756-1111
Get directions (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=&rlz=1B3GGGL_en___US244&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=0,0,3038139094048154863&fb=1&hq=Welsh+Industries+of&hnear=DeKalb,+IL&gl=us&daddr=1600+East+Lincoln+Highway,+DeKalb,+IL+60115-3905&geocode=3332804743847152427,41.923360,-88.733276&ei=FwF8Ta3BHMqJrQG-9PCEBg&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=directions-to&resnum=2&ved=0CB4QngIwAQ) - Is this accurate? (http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=&rlz=1B3GGGL_en___US244&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=Welsh+Industries+of+DeKalb,+IL&fb=1&gl=us&hq=Welsh+Industries+of&hnear=DeKalb,+IL&cid=3038139094048154863&ppyss=ReportProblem:o$ep:lu)


Welsh Industries and the Royal Rangers (http://www.welshind.com/rr.htm)

For the past few years Welsh Industries has provided many Royal Ranger ...
www.welshind.com/rr.htm - Cached (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:f5qcIKdjsywJ:www.welshind.com/rr.htm+Welsh+Industries+of+DeKalb,+IL&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com) - Similar (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B3GGGL_en___US244&q=related:www.welshind.com/rr.htm+Welsh+Industries+of+DeKalb,+IL&tbo=1&sa=X&ei=FwF8Ta3BHMqJrQG-9PCEBg&ved=0CCkQHzAC)

Show more results from welshind.com (http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=Welsh+Industries+of+DeKalb%2C+IL&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B3GGGL_en___US244&ie=UTF-8#)


Welsh Industries of DeKalb, IL - Welshind.com. Stay away from them!!! (http://www.militaryjeepers.com/community/showthread.php?23617-Welsh-Industries-of-DeKalb-IL-Welshind.com.-Stay-away-from-them%21%21%21)

4 posts - 3 authors - Last post: 14 hours ago
Short version: We were talking with the company about ordering patches. In order to get a proof done, we had to provide our credit card number.
www.militaryjeepers.com/.../showthread.php?...Welsh-Industries-of-DeKalb-IL-Welshind...

[SavageSun4x4]

Of NOTE: Their hoopla over being the Supplier for the Royal Rangers...yea, well I followed ALL 5 of the Royal Ranger links and they are ALL dead end, no such number, no such zone, return to sender...LOL

[Jeffb_79]

Welsh Industries? You mean Welsh Industries right.... Welsh Industries screwed service members on some patches.... Welsh Industries, Welsh Industries, Welsh Industries, Welsh Industries, Welsh Industries, Welsh Industries.....

If you put it in your sig ling - even hidden - it will come up more often - I would rather people find this site before they find them anyway.

You reap what you sow Michael. Do the right thing.


So if I type something in like:
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!

Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!

Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!

Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!

It will actually show up on google.
Unfortunately, the guy sounds like a douche and probably doesn't give a damn about his reputation.

[Mr.RonGilbert]

Edit: This company ****ed over MJ. Be forewarned

[miljeep]

I would not worry about it, if one person is warned by this post, then i am happy. I posted the image of one of the emails so people knew i was not making it up.

In all fairness, I told him that I was going to use the free business review sites to let people know how they treated us. They really did not seem to care. I first mentioned that I would do it months ago, and never posted anything about the bad service they are giving us. I really thought that it would just help move things along as they would not want the bad press to get out about them.

I never received anything from them stating "hey, we are sorry it took so long and we are going to make this a priority". I was watching that Clark Howard show and someone had a problem with a business and he suggested that they turn to the review sites. He said that a lot of companies don't like the negative reviews and that they will lilely help solve the issue in a timely manner. He did say that only post truthful things, so I made sure that everything I posted was the truth. Hell, I even posted a screenshot of an email of them saying basically that "I was correct in what I said and they would take care of it.....last october".

I am just going to let this post sit here and let others see it. Some people may not appreciate the fact that they treated us this way and will hopefully choose a company that will treat them better. Since I have pretty much come to terms with us never getting the patches or money, I am happy knowing that I am able to warn others. I wish I was warned.

[korisu56]

Edit: This company ****ed over MJ. Be forewarned

[miljeep]

if someone comes here for an honest review of Welsh Industries, they may not take it seriously if we post stuff like above. I just want people to be warned. I can watch the logs and see if anyone arrives here after searching for that company.

[Jacob]

I say we start a calling frenzy first thing Monday morning from all across the country. I bet it gets resolved by Monday afternoon.

[hobbyshopass]

You could also call and act interested in a very large order and tell them that since they decided to screw MJ over that the order will be placed elsewhere. I think that you would be able to do more damage if you act interested in there product, waste there time and then nail them. If everyone does this nicely it would clog their phones and they would have no idea what to do but refund. The worse that could happen is the money is not returned but that has already happened. I say waste their time nicely then blam. It would be funny to have several reps busy on the phone with MJ and all the sudden nothing.

Just my .02

[miljeep]

Who knows. The link to this post is already in the top results and has risen to that position less than 12 hours after posting it. I just hope others stumble upon this and read how he treated us and continues to treat us. Bottom line is he lied, continues to lie and has our patches and money owed to us. There really is no need to flood this post with references to Welsh Industries, google can see when people are spamming keywords and I don't want to risk losing the position in the rankings because then this post will not do what it is intended to do, warn others that may be considering them for their patches

[Jacob]

I have 3 different phone numbers I will be calling them from on Monday. I think a few hundred of us should follow suit and keep them busy all day for nothing.

[threejeeps]

Has anyone reoprted this to the BBB (Better Business Bureau) yet? Just another way to get it solved. When businesses are looked up on their database you can see how many complaints have been made against a company, what kind of complaints they were, whether or not these complaints were resolved, and how they were resolved. If enough people file complaints with them, their ratings will go way down. Just my .02.

[miljeep]

Hmm, I never thought of posting something to the BBB. I know I looked them up and did not see them listed before. I am going to look into it now and see if I can post a complaint.

I added their info into BBB and was submitting the complaint, but I have to wait until the wife gets back to find out the total amount owed since she is tracking that stuff and it asks as part of the process.

[SavageSun4x4]

To hit the search engines you need to put it in the title of the post to pop higher on the search results. You can do it like I have done here. I gave my post a title.

[SavageSun4x4]

Mr Welsh,
Welsh Industries of DeKalb, IL

REF: Military Jeepers.com (MJ)

SUBJ: Issues concerning MJ, sales and service

I am gravely concerned about your dealings with the Military Jeepers.com organization in Harker Heights, Texas. I have reviewed the basic correspondence and it appears your company has failed in its duty to honor it obligations.

I will be following the links on your site and contacting those organizations to inform them of your business dealings and your company's attitude towards our American military. I have already checked the links for the Royal Rangers and all of them are 'page not found'. I will pursue the others and provide them with a copy of this e mail.

Failure to treat our military soldiers with the highest of reverence should be a crime in my opinion. These men and women work arduously under the most extreme conditions of danger across this globe to insure that companies such as your can shill their wares in the market place. I find it disgusting when you fail to live up to the standards this great country allows.

I strongly recommend you make attempts to patch the potholed road you have laid with MJ! Failure to do so will only result in a less than stellar future in business. Remember that in this day and age of near global instant communications, bad news travels fast and you are truly bad news!

You are welcome to contact me to discuss this matter further, but I suggest you contact them first!

______________________________
Don

17 Oaks Ranch LLC

Boerne, Texas

[sincitycj]

You may want to try filing a complaint with the Illinois Attorney General. Here's a link (http://www.ag.state.il.us/consumers/index.html)to the Consumer Protection Dept. I would also let this lousy company know that you are doing it.

[miljeep]

You may want to try filing a complaint with the Illinois Attorney General. Here's a link (http://www.ag.state.il.us/consumers/index.html)to the Consumer Protection Dept. I would also let this lousy company know that you are doing it.

We have been dealing with this guy for a over a year, so it has got to the point where I am not in a rush. If people read this post, and they think there may be a chance that they will get the same bad treatment, then they may not do business with this company. Really, if you were looking for a patch making company and then read how they treated us, would you risk going through them? They have had more than enough time, I am sure that most would agree that it has moved into "unreasonable", the amount of time it has taken to rectify this.

Heck, that email from Oct of last year pretty much lays it out on the table, they have everything ready and will take care of it that week. Ha!, that was Oct and it is now March. They cannot say they were not reminded, I sent them multiple emails since then. Any excuse they may try to come up with about how we dropped off their radar would be a bunch of crap.

This is my last contact with them:

http://inlinethumb08.webshots.com/36423/2647204590102783595S600x600Q85.jpg
http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/46597/2266139490102783595S600x600Q85.jpg

[RescueJP]

Edit: This company ****ed over MJ. Be forewarned

[miljeep]

Thank you to everyone that helped to push this issue with Welsh Industries. After reading the first post, you will see only a small part of our dealings with them and have a brief understanding of our issue.

We arrived home today from a short vacation and found a box in our mailbox containing the patches that we had sent to them about a year ago for a refund, which was later changed to "just ship them back to us so we can close the loop on this".

We are still waiting to see if a refund hits the credit card for what they owe us, but I wanted to let you know that there was movement on this.

Thanks again to all. I will update the first post to reflect the updated status of this situation

[SavageSun4x4]

So if I type something in like:
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
Welsh Industries, Ltd. screws over military members, DON't DO BUSINESS WITH THEM!
...
It will actually show up on google.
Unfortunately, the guy sounds like a douche and probably doesn't give a damn about his reputation.
Not really.

If you want it to show up then take a look at my search on Goggle and #4 on the search list. It popped because it was in the thread heading. As for the constant repeats...Goggle sees those and bypasses them generally. WHY? About 100 billion folks do that all the time and if Goggle picked it up that is just about all the search engine would report. So whether you say something good or bad it gets a pass. What is really does is push it to the bottom of the list found searches.

In addition most folks when they see that they generally ignore it, you come across as someone who has a axe to grind, more along the lines of a butt hurt x-employee.

Finally if you really want to hurt them big then title the thread like MilJeep did and include a ending like he did. I did the search on Goggle only min after he posted the thread and it was already in the top 4 hits for Goggle...WOW. Now this will pull in someone who is doing a search and what MilJeep did was say WHY and WHAT they did wrong or to piss him off. Type they phuck over folks they are bad karma does nearly nothing. You MUST state Who, What, When and Why or you generally accomplish next to nothing.

[ColoFreeJeeper]

I'll buy some patches.

[miljeep]

Not really.

If you want it to show up then take a look at my search on Goggle and #4 on the search list. It popped because it was in the thread heading. As for the constant repeats...Goggle sees those and bypasses them generally. WHY? About 100 billion folks do that all the time and if Goggle picked it up that is just about all the search engine would report. So whether you say something good or bad it gets a pass. What is really does is push it to the bottom of the list found searches.

In addition most folks when they see that they generally ignore it, you come across as someone who has a axe to grind, more along the lines of a butt hurt x-employee.

Finally if you really want to hurt them big then title the thread like MilJeep did and include a ending like he did. I did the search on Goggle only min after he posted the thread and it was already in the top 4 hits for Goggle...WOW. Now this will pull in someone who is doing a search and what MilJeep did was say WHY and WHAT they did wrong or to piss him off. Type they phuck over folks they are bad karma does nearly nothing. You MUST state Who, What, When and Why or you generally accomplish next to nothing.

I waited and waited to post about this guy. I really don't like to hit them where it counts and generally think everyone has a decent side to them and like to give people a chance. I really did give this guy a lot of chances to make things right for a long time and he basically just dragged his arse and all but broke contact with me. If I posted all the emails I sent, they all basically said the same thing these past few months, "Do what you promised or I will post negative reviews all over the net". Sadly, he did not budge until I posted here. Sure, life gets busy, we all know that. He had many chances to reply to emails telling me "hey man, I got the patches here, but we are so busy I won't be able to send them out until whatever day". I would have been cool with that, but it never happened. I figured it was only fair that I provide copies of the emails as proof that I was telling the truth. It must have worked because we receive part of the deal in the mail recently.

As for the search engine stuff, I am an internet marketing and search engine optimization nerd. I follow search engine news and optimization techniques closer than I follow current events and jeep news. That is about as far as I can go with that without boring you to death with the details, but suffice it to say that when I got to this portion of my reply I got pretty excited and had a long detailed explanation which I deleted. Then I typed some new info which I felt would make some people's brains explode and I deleted that also.

[Mr.RonGilbert]

So um.... ok. They still screwed you over so I hope they get what comes with the bad press.

[SavageSun4x4]

As for the search engine stuff, I am an internet marketing and search engine optimization nerd. I follow search engine news and optimization techniques closer than I follow current events and jeep news. That is about as far as I can go with that without boring you to death with the details, but suffice it to say that when I got to this portion of my reply I got pretty excited and had a long detailed explanation which I deleted. Then I typed some new info which I felt would make some people's brains explode and I deleted that also.
I wish you had, I would have enjoyed the read. Especially since I left this business when I sold my company in '03 and decided that after nearly 25 years it was time to hang up my spurs. I can only imagine how far things have moved since 'my day' and I am sure that by todays standards my day was crude at best.

But if you have some info I would appreciate and enjoy...