View Full Version : You cannot ride with your doors off in PA
I was hanging around the PA Jeeps site and noticed a post that mentioned that it is not legal to ride around with the doors off your jeep unless it was manufactured without doors. Supposedly their was a model jeep, an early CJ I think, that had doors listed as a standard option, so they are good when it comes to riding doorless.
Here is the original post (http://www.pajeeps.org/forum/index.php?topic=1352.0) from the PA Jeeps site.
I just thought this was interesting, because it may be on the books in other states also, but rarely enforced.
HillBillE
02-11-2008, 00:12
From the sounds of it, PA is anti Jeep! I don't get it, here I drive around in the sumer with no doors and the windshield folded down. As long as I have a driver side mirror and eye protection if the widshield's down, I'm good to go!
the local cops would hang out the main entrance to paragon and pull you over if your tires stuck outside your fender flares. When I went to camp jeep there a few years ago I passed a row of 6 jeeps pulled over just outside the main entrance. It seems we are a major sorce of revenue for them. Oh for you people out of our area, these happinings are all in PA!
vajeeper
02-11-2008, 10:37
Note to self: Don't move to PA.
HillBillE
02-11-2008, 10:45
Note to self: Don't move to PA.
Don't move to, visit, wheel or drive through PA, unless you're driving a Liberty!!:D
They are pushing to change it, but it make you wonder about other states and their laws. I always hear about the bumper height laws, but this is the first I had heard about being illegal to now have doors.
In a way, I understand why they do it. They don't need someone like my wife in her VW rolling around with no doors. On the other hand, they should make an exception to the rule if the vehicle is made to have the doors removed. I guess SEMA is working on pushing stuff forward to get the law changed, but who knows when that will happen.
Unfortunately, someone got nabbed by the po po, but at least it was somsone with connections in the offroad world because he owns skid row, so maybe he will have some more power by calling in some favors to help get this law changed.
devilnutz
02-11-2008, 12:14
I cruise around a lot in the summer without doors and never had a problem. Most local cops don’t care about such petty crap, I know a lot of cops and honestly most don’t even know much about it. But I have heard you gotta look out for the state police for some reason they got a bug in their ass.
JeepinSoldier
02-11-2008, 14:08
the local cops would hang out the main entrance to paragon and pull you over if your tires stuck outside your fender flares. When I went to camp jeep there a few years ago I passed a row of 6 jeeps pulled over just outside the main entrance. It seems we are a major sorce of revenue for them. Oh for you people out of our area, these happinings are all in PA!
So they can ticket you for doors and tire clearance even if your Jeep is registered in another state?
So they can ticket you for doors and tire clearance even if your Jeep is registered in another state?
I would say so. As an MP in Texas, I was able to cite anyone for any Texas Code, no matter where they were registered. I am sure it is the same in each state. By driving on the state's roads, you are probably obligated to follow their traffic laws.
I never ran into any problems issuing a ticket o anyone because of where there vehicle was registered, but then again I never picked on those missing jeeps doors.
The vehicle has to abide by the laws where it is registered they can stop and ticket you for it. Most peole pay it cause of the hassle to go back and fight a hundred dollar ticket. However if you fight it you will win, driving on other states roads in no way makes your car have to abide by there rules. If that were the case no one would be able to drive into Cali or NY because of the emmisions laws.
Never ran into anyone fighting me for a ticket, but then again i just hit them for traffic violations and the occasional insurance, inspection and registration issues.
Not sure, but I think the emissions and stuff would fall under someone not being able to register a car in that state. The county I live in demands emission testing and some parts of the state don't.
lockedupLJ
02-12-2008, 22:52
The vehicle has to abide by the laws where it is registered they can stop and ticket you for it. Most peole pay it cause of the hassle to go back and fight a hundred dollar ticket. However if you fight it you will win, driving on other states roads in no way makes your car have to abide by there rules. If that were the case no one would be able to drive into Cali or NY because of the emmisions laws.
I wish you were right, but you're not. This is a subject I know all to well as I am not able to drive my Jeep on any public road in VA, including national forests. I got 7 tickets at once about 4 months back for headlights, bumpers, tires, flares, lights for the flares, no mirrors, and having L.E.D. taillights.
It's called interstate laws, when you cross over that state line you better have your shit together cause they can and will ticket you and impound your rig, ask me how I know.:mad:
I got 7 tickets at once about 4 months back for headlights, bumpers, tires, flares, lights for the flares, no mirrors, and having L.E.D. taillights.
Damn.
HillBillE
02-12-2008, 23:43
that sucks
X2! To be in the club I'm in, (NSW4X4) your rig has to be 'streetable', meaning it ''Won't draw undue attention'' from the law. I'd hate to run into the cop who got you lockedupLJ!, Sounds like he had a beef with Jeepers!
healerdoc1
02-13-2008, 01:22
A buddy of mine I grew up with is a LT. with County Sheriffs Dept. He and his wife have also has owned Jeeps. Here in IL., I installed mounts to move mirrors to body when doors are off. He told me I didn't have to do that. Just had to have a rearview mirror, and one tailight. IL. Vehicle code. I asked about the wheels sticking out beyond flairs, eh, probably won't get stopped, but I think it is illegal. There is a height or a to tall law thing. My son is a Police Officer, and I asked him about it. He mentioned they changed how they measure the body height. Used to be bumper, but not any more. Many folks were just renovating how the bumper was mounted to sastify the law. Now it's measured differently he said. A good friend who is a State Trooper here, said he is like most others. Won't stop anyone unless there is a flagrant violation of law, or they are driving stupid or crazy. Now this is on Jeep drivers. If you have a Jeep that is ungodly tall, running on really big tires, and etc, etc,, yea, expect to be stopped. Our Jeep is about as big as it is going to get probably. Who knows. There are probably laws and vehicle codes out there that , if someone wanted to enforce them, they could. Play it safe, be a wise builder and driver. If your out to attract attention, who knows, maybe you will, but of the wrong kind. Just a thought. I'm not saying to not change something, or not to build this or that. Just do it wisely perhaps. Keep smart, keep Safe,,,,, :)
you can go to most states dot websites to get the laws, it is dry reading but good info
I wish you were right, but you're not. This is a subject I know all to well as I am not able to drive my Jeep on any public road in VA, including national forests. I got 7 tickets at once about 4 months back for headlights, bumpers, tires, flares, lights for the flares, no mirrors, and having L.E.D. taillights.
It's called interstate laws, when you cross over that state line you better have your shit together cause they can and will ticket you and impound your rig, ask me how I know.:mad:
what was wrong with your LED t/ls?
crazy4ink
07-15-2008, 09:22
I am a PA state inspection station and a licensed vehicle inspector. According to the letter of the law, as long as the door are manufactured to be removable AND you have both side view mirrors, you are in compliance with the law. A lot of people around PA think that when they take their doors off, they don't have to worry about the mirrors. This is what gets them pulled over and then, since the oh so kind officer already hase you stopped, he can find all kinds of other things to cite your for. Most people will not find out the laws/regulations that are on the books so that they are prepared to defend themselves when they are right. As a result, those ill-prepared get cited for something that is not illegal.
The biggest problem that we have here in PA right now is that the Jeep dealerships aren't even standing up for us. There are a number of Jeep dealerships, that when called by State Troopers or Judges, will state that Jeep doors are not designed to be removed by the end user. The doors are designed to be removed by Jeep mechanics when working inside the vehicle.
muddyluxury
07-15-2008, 09:28
what was wrong with your LED t/ls?
typically its they dont mark the side. the wrangler tail lights stick out and provide a reflective surface on the corner visiable from the side, if thats not there then it becomes a safety issue, so they say anyways
I live in PA and have been driving all summer with no doors... I do have a Harley mirror on the drivers side and I have convex mirrors on my outboard air vents...
I have YET to be pulled over for not having doors...
I am a PA state inspection station and a licensed vehicle inspector. According to the letter of the law, as long as the door are manufactured to be removable AND you have both side view mirrors, you are in compliance with the law. A lot of people around PA think that when they take their doors off, they don't have to worry about the mirrors. This is what gets them pulled over and then, since the oh so kind officer already hase you stopped, he can find all kinds of other things to cite your for. Most people will not find out the laws/regulations that are on the books so that they are prepared to defend themselves when they are right. As a result, those ill-prepared get cited for something that is not illegal.
The biggest problem that we have here in PA right now is that the Jeep dealerships aren't even standing up for us. There are a number of Jeep dealerships, that when called by State Troopers or Judges, will state that Jeep doors are not designed to be removed by the end user. The doors are designed to be removed by Jeep mechanics when working inside the vehicle.
Got a link to that code online, so I can print it and keep it in the jeep? I'm heading to the All Breeds show this weekend, and if I can get that in writing, I'll roll all the way up there with no doors:D:beer:
crazy4ink
07-15-2008, 12:20
Got a link to that code online, so I can print it and keep it in the jeep? I'm heading to the All Breeds show this weekend, and if I can get that in writing, I'll roll all the way up there with no doors:D:beer:
The inspection reg is not online. The best thing I can do is type it in for you with the paragraph numbers and then you can print that out.
Since you are coming to the All Breeds show, be sure and stop by our vendor booth to say hi!
crazy4ink
07-15-2008, 12:22
Here is what the verbage says in PennDOT Vehicle Equipment and Inspection Regulation, August 2004 (most recent one) on page E-7:
"(f) Doors - A vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with doors of a type used as original equipment. The doors shall open and close securely unless the vehicle has been manufactured or modified to the extent that there is no roof or side."
When I asked me QAO about this when I got my inspection station appointment, he said that if you are driving around in a Jeep with no top and no doors, you are meeting the wording of the regulation. If you have a top and no doors, then you are not meeting the wording of the regulation. I guess you can take that for what it is worth.
I have driven from here in Millmont, PA to York for the PA Jeep Show with my halfcab and no doors, with no issue. My partner Damien very rarely has doors on his YJ at all and he has not had any problems either.
We (as Jeepers) can't run w/o doors, yet in the great communistwealth of Pennsyltucky the Harley-Deere guys can ride with out skidlids and open pipes!
(Sore subject here)
I wonder if you can only get 1 ticket for running door-less in Pa., or is the violation per door? That could add up to 4 tickets on a JK if it is per door.
sincitycj
07-15-2008, 17:09
The vehicle has to abide by the laws where it is registered they can stop and ticket you for it. Most peole pay it cause of the hassle to go back and fight a hundred dollar ticket. However if you fight it you will win, driving on other states roads in no way makes your car have to abide by there rules. If that were the case no one would be able to drive into Cali or NY because of the emmisions laws.
This hit it pretty much on the head. I was stopped in Cali. for having window tint that was too dark. I attempted to explain to him, attempted being the key word, that my tint was legal in Nv. He told me it didn't matter and that I had no choice but to pay the ticket. I told him that I did have a choice and he replied, "What, are you going to drive back here and fight it?" I told him that I was and I did just that. To my suprise the cop actually showed up in court. After watching the cop get a good lashing from the judge, my ticket was dismissed. Justice for me.
irish1371
07-15-2008, 20:39
As an adenum to the PA state law on doors. There are some other paragraphs that cover problems with them. It is a god awfull read but basicly boils down to that if the doors/top are not standard on a vehicle they can be removed. Now this has sparked a ton of debate but after looking at factory build sheets(get it for free from DC if you haven't) it seems that doors are still listed as an option on jeeps up to 2002. So the gray area is that if your jeep is older then 2002 you can by law in pa remove them if you still have mirrors
In the end it seems that it will always boil down to weather the cop is a Pr*ck or not really or if the jeeper is being an assclown
In the end it seems that it will always boil down to weather the cop is a Pr*ck or not really or if the jeeper is being an assclown
Well said.
crazy4ink
07-15-2008, 21:52
In the end it seems that it will always boil down to weather the cop is a Pr*ck or not really or if the jeeper is being an assclown
This is true for more than just the door/no door debate. I have found over the years that if you are polite and honest with whichever officer (county sheriff or state trooper) they tend to be a little more lax on you.
boodlebutt
07-16-2008, 22:07
that may pertain to the "wrangler" bodies out there. but i have seen an XJ w/o doors on the road too. i know that they aren't designed to be removed, i have one. wish i could remove the doors!!! (i gotta fix that stupid drivers door window, hate electric windows).
he (the other xj) had all 4 doors removed & still had the roof on it. also a home-made front bumper (aluminun diamond plate), 33" tires & lifted to fit said tires.
mjohnson
07-19-2008, 01:24
In the end it seems that it will always boil down to weather the cop is a Pr*ck or not really or if the jeeper is being an assclown
That can be said about any law in any state. Classic example is my jetta. There is quite a bit of stuff that is illegal (eg, 15% tint, radar, no front plate, open exhaust..can be closed though, etc.) about it in most states (even colorado where it's registered), but I have never been bothered about it, even when pulled over for a traffic violation. Everything to do with emissions has also been removed, but that's no biggie because Colorado Springs doesn't have emissions.
My thoughts: Only do what you are willing to pay the consequences for. Also, be polite with the 5-oh...you'd be surprised at how well that works. Couple more examples back in the day: 1. Pulled over in colorado springs by a county sheriff and his deputy going 110 in a 45 equated to a $100 fine and 4 points on the license for careless driving. 2. written warning in florida by a statie for going 80 in a 55. All because I was polite and didn't try to hide the fact that I was breaking the law.
vajeeper
07-19-2008, 05:48
Also, be polite with the 5-oh...you'd be surprised at how well that works.
Exactly. I got pulled by Fairfax Counties finest on Old Colchester Rd doing 43 in a 25. I didn't play dumb as I knew I was speeding and ended everything with "Sir". Nothing more than a written warning. With Virginia's stiff speeding fines, that was a blessing.
(Probably didn't hurt that I was in ACU's as his last comment before he walked off was "Thanks for your service, be safe out there.")
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