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View Full Version : Managing Winch Cable & Synthetic Line - Some thoughts.........


Fifthpro
03-19-2008, 22:12
First let me say that this is my opinion on some "Do's & Dont's" in dealing with winch cable. If you do not agree, that is fine but please explain your line of thought.

I was at a Winching 201 Class/Ride that a club was running for the more advanced group. The guy giving the class was the Trail Leader for the ride I was about to go on and he was using his vehicle w/winch to demonstrate with during his class. As I sat there trying to learn something I quickly noticed that the winch cable looked like a fouled up fishing pole reel. Hummm.......I could see flat spots on the cable and when he started to demonstrate how the winch worked to the "students" he was embarrassed to find out the winch no longer worked! So much for Pre-Run Checks....

Here is a few examples of what I am talking about, what a mess.....
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/Fifthpro/Winch%20Pics/rokmenmercbumper1.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/Fifthpro/Winch%20Pics/hawseuhmw_small.jpg


First, lets re-visit some very basic info for the winch owner & operator:

Some very basic winch tips.
1. You will need to find a suitable spot and re-spool your new winch cable under tension.
2. You want the cable on there tightly and neatly under tension so if you do not take out a lot of cable when you are conducting a recovery it will prevent the cable from cutting down and through several layers. This will damage your cable quickly but lets you upgrade to synthetic rope sooner!
3. I do this all the time and its a part of my pre-run inspection of my Jeep. It lets me know that everything works and I get a chance to inspect my cable.
4. You will want to spool it up as neatly as it was when you first got it. Not easy sometimes but with some practice you will get it like that. When it starts separating on you stop and adjust the cable and then continue.
5. When you are winching for real, you will always want to run out as much cable as you can except for the last 5 to 7 wraps for cable or 10 to 12 for synthetic rope. The last layer on the spool puts the winch at its optimal or rated pulling strength. Each layer after that you will loose about 10% of the rated pulling power.

Here are some pics of what I am talking about. Notice that each layer when under pressure is sitting on an even row of cable. If you are unable to pull off all of the cable it will not cut down on crossed cable and cause unwanted damage.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/Fifthpro/Winch%20Pics/IMG_0637.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/Fifthpro/Winch%20Pics/IMG_0635.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/Fifthpro/Winch%20Pics/IMG_0633.jpg


Last thoughts.....I see this cable hook storage technique all the time. When the owner goes to stow the hook, they hook it to a recovery point and tighten it down. OK, I admit it may look cool but what is it doing to the cable? You already know; it kinks the cable and over time will damage it. Why not just run the cable into the fairlead? I will assume that some folks will state something along the line of "not wanting to damage the rollers" as an excuse but I disagree.
The bumper is there for a reason....to be the first thing that is struck when you plow into a tree, rock, car, etc. If the cable or synthetic line is stretched across the bumper then it could suffer damage. I think that when you look at it that way it only makes sense to stow it in the fairlead.

Here is what I am talking about.....
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/Fifthpro/Winch%20Pics/winch_done_close.gif
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/Fifthpro/Winch%20Pics/P94779.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/Fifthpro/Winch%20Pics/2208251_11_full.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/Fifthpro/Winch%20Pics/2205828_29.jpg


Now the way I am suggesting....
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/Fifthpro/Winch%20Pics/IMG_0632.jpg

Let the discussion begin......
korisu56
03-19-2008, 22:33
I'm fixing my hook tomorrow morning....coulda told me tonight....:)

Do you have to make sure synthetic is spooled as tight all the time as well?
Fifthpro
03-19-2008, 23:01
I'm fixing my hook tomorrow morning....coulda told me tonight....:)

Do you have to make sure synthetic is spooled as tight all the time as well?

I would not bust you out in front of the guys and would not bring it up now but you told on yourself....but I did notice. Look at the bright side you are getting a syn rope now.

IRT syn rope and spooled as tight....here is my line of thinking, other may argue or have other opinions which is fine.

a. The big thing to remember between wire and rope is that you will need to leave more rolls on the spool compared to wire rope. The rule of thumb is 10 to 12 wraps for syn rope. (I will be making something for you to help you ID this and prevent more from coming off, more to follow)

b. No, you do not need to worry about the syn rope from overlapping on itself as the syn rope flattens out under load and will not damage itself like wire cable will. With that said, I still closely manage my syn rope like cable and wind it evenly. This is not out of necessity but as a result of my ECD or just a force of habit.

c. The above comments do come with a word or two of caution; when conducting a recovery you still need to manage the syn rope and not let it all stack up on one side of the spool or you will run the risk of it piling up and getting damaged by the failead mounting plate or other items that it comes in contact with.

d. Of course there are concerns of the spool heating up (depending on the type of winch you have) from the gears/break and causing heat damage to the syn rope. In most cases this will not be a problem but it is amplified if you power out the syn rope under load as encountered when using the winch to lower a vehicle over an embankment, cliff or steep slope.

e. In the community you will see various pro and cons of syn rope. A lot of folks siting rope failures. I collect this data so if you see it happen try and document it, take pictures of not only the break point in the rope but the winch itself. I dare to venture the majority of the time it is a result of operator error vice simple rope failure but it does happen. The biggest Pro is that the syn rope does not store the energy and will simply fall to the ground when it fails compared to what wire cable will do. Do you still need gloves when handling syn rope is another question often asked. The true is I always wear gloves but have to admit I will work with the syn rope without them if required knowing that I do not have to deal with the wire burs found on cable.

Let me know if you have any more questions. I will be happy to provide my opinion but of course it may differ from others.....
korisu56
03-20-2008, 09:57
My spool looks like crap simply because once I saw that I screwed up the wire, I realized it was going to be useless. I can see some error in this being that what if I'm the only one there with a winch? I'd probably still not use it just because the wire is jacked up...hmm.

Have you broken a winch down to it's basic parts? If so, is there anything that can be done to prevent over heating issues and such? Is there some basic maintenance that can be done to ensure livability of winch motors? Seeing as how I bought what would appear to be a "budget winch", I figure the least I can do is take good care of it to ensure a long life.
E5EDDIE
03-20-2008, 11:13
Following the manufactures guidance (Mile Marker) for my 8K winch, I respooled it under load. What I did was pull my Jeep up a slight grade in a parking lot and hand guided the wire so it wrapped as correctly in layers on the spool as it pulled in. My question is do y'all think it had enough load on it to make a difference? It seemed to work ok but it's my first winch and getting a first time go is important on reco equip to me!
Lt. Dan
03-20-2008, 11:19
I wish I had to worry about these things...

Dan
(winchless)
Fifthpro
03-20-2008, 13:05
Following the manufactures guidance (Mile Marker) for my 8K winch, I respooled it under load. What I did was pull my Jeep up a slight grade in a parking lot and hand guided the wire so it wrapped as correctly in layers on the spool as it pulled in. My question is do y'all think it had enough load on it to make a difference? It seemed to work ok but it's my first winch and getting a first time go is important on reco equip to me!

Eddie, you did exactly what I do. The winch is like a High Lift Jack, the more you screw with it the more you understand, etc. Some folks measure the prowlness of their vehicles on not ever having to use their winch.......I am not happy unless I have to you it. Just find yourself a "friendly area" and use the winch, snatch block, shackles, etc. to get use to it. Just like that old M4 Carbine...
korisu56
03-20-2008, 13:29
I've forced myself to use it in a number of situations....:)
E5EDDIE
03-20-2008, 18:34
It turned a few heads on cars driving by to see me doing it at the neighborhood pool parking lot, but, f-'em, always been a good motto to me! W171079 (my ol' M4) never failed me, I hope my winch never does. I see some folks in those pics have the synthetic rope fairlead, but appear to have wire rope, won't that burn cuts into the fairlead (usually aluminum?) when retrieving under load? I agree with running the wire in and storing the hook snugly against the roller, it's not under so much pressure that it'll damage the roller on mine, but stays in place nicely.
E5EDDIE
03-20-2008, 18:35
I wish I had to worry about these things...

Dan
(winchless)
Can you snag one off of a trade-in?:D
Fifthpro
03-20-2008, 21:05
I cannot speak for who or what the folks in the pics are running. Just random shots I snagged from the Internet to illustrate a point. One day the owner of said pic will see the post and get all hostile I am sure; but if the shoe fits.....
Check this one out from an "Official" Jeep add.......
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg227/Fifthpro/winch_215.jpg
korisu56
03-20-2008, 21:10
Hi everyone, my name is Chris, and I jacked up my winch cable....
E5EDDIE
03-21-2008, 23:58
Hi everyone, my name is Chris, and I jacked up my winch cable....
funny, you left out the "pre-surgical tranny" part of your intro!:D
miljeep
03-22-2008, 01:36
Hi everyone, my name is Chris, and I jacked up my winch cable....

That was a cable? that thing was so mangled that it looked like someone wrapped a brillo pad around the spool. I guess I cannot talk crap, the only winch I have on the trail is on another jeep if someone else has one.
Fifthpro
03-22-2008, 12:13
That was a cable? that thing was so mangled that it looked like someone wrapped a brillo pad around the spool. I guess I cannot talk crap, the only winch I have on the trail is on another jeep if someone else has one.

What are you talking about? I saw that High-Lift Jack on the back of you Jeep! Winch 3' at a time but still able to winch!!!!!
korisu56
03-22-2008, 20:21
Damn straight. Just like the ole come-along days...(glad those are pretty much over.)
TexCJ7
03-22-2008, 20:42
Damn straight. Just like the ole come-along days...(glad those are pretty much over.)


screw dat shit man
korisu56
03-22-2008, 20:44
Most the hard pulls were your fault anyway...:)
JeepinSoldier
03-24-2008, 05:30
Following the manufactures guidance (Mile Marker) for my 8K winch, I respooled it under load. What I did was pull my Jeep up a slight grade in a parking lot and hand guided the wire so it wrapped as correctly in layers on the spool as it pulled in. My question is do y'all think it had enough load on it to make a difference? It seemed to work ok but it's my first winch and getting a first time go is important on reco equip to me!

I saw your question has not been answered yet.

The answer is yes. You need just enough load to slightly stretch the cable on the initial winch install. This tightens the strands of wire in the cable before it is exposed to an actual load, or a shock load, and actually makes it perform to its rated capacity.

Respooling wire cable neatly on the drum under a slight load after any use will help to prevent the wire cable from pulling down between the layers of wraps on the drum if the cable is not spooled all the way out. This will help to prevent damage to the cable.
irish1371
06-25-2008, 20:40
I prefer to store the cable all the way in with a 5 dollar hockey puck used to protect the rollers
Fifthpro
06-25-2008, 23:09
I prefer to store the cable all the way in with a 5 dollar hockey puck used to protect the rollers

When I used steel cable I utilized the "winch saver" device....pretty much an over-sized hockey puck. It also served the vital role of a cable arrester in the event of line breakage. Not a bad device and one I wished I would have invented myself. :)
irish1371
07-26-2008, 21:34
One Item I see over looked alot with the new synth winch lines is the fact that IMHO(and we know how much that is worth) if you smoke you should not own synth line on your winch. Let's just not lie, some day not matter how much a smoker denys it he will winch with a Cig lit up. One erant ash will be enough to trash that rope.

The one thing that will still trash a rope in a heartbeat is a heat source. The damage may not show on that pull or the next but it sure will that one time your all alone and that winch is the only thing thats gonna let ya drive home.

These ropes tend to survive UV oil ect damage fairly well, but I do think alot of guys out there(probly not us mil issue types) are going to run into a lot of heart ache when synth moves to the realm of the "norm" for winch lines.

Synth is great, a safety improvement and comes in golly gee colors; but it will take more care to live long and prosper then most of the back on the block guys will know/be willing to perform. There will be a learning curve and I think the winch companies should get in front of this before they give synth lines a bad rep.

:) please discuss :)
Swamprat
12-29-2009, 06:20
not to butt heads, but i would think that synthetic line would be able to handle more heat than the errant cigarette ash. Unless you stick the cig right on the cable and hold it there, there is not much heat by the time the ash would hit the cable. I'm sure the drum gets hotter than this.
HillBillE
12-29-2009, 11:59
..... I see some folks in those pics have the synthetic rope fairlead, but appear to have wire rope, won't that burn cuts into the fairlead (usually aluminum?) when retrieving under load?.

That's called a "Hawse" fairlead, and they make them for both steel cables and sythetic rope. (I don't think they are designed to be interchangable)

I had to buy a new sythetic style fairlead, becuase I had rollers made for steel cable.

There is a company now making roller fairleads designed for synthetic rope, but I haven't heard any reports on how they work.