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Thread: Starter Grinds - Won't Start

  1. #1
    Non-MVC Supporter Military Jeeper's Avatar
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    Default Starter Grinds - Won't Start

    UPDATED:

    So today I went to a couple places with no major problems other then lately the Jeep takes a couple tries to start.

    Well today my last stop of the day was indeed the last stop. Went to turn over the engine and it just grinded..........wouldn't even attempt to turn over, just a loud piercing grind. I tapped it with a hammer to see if I could get it to disengage with no luck.

    Had a couple people push me and popped the clutch to get her running. As soon as I got her home and parked I tried it again, no luck, same grinding noise.

    UPDATED: So I crawled underneath the Jeep to find only 1 of 2 bolts holding the starter in. Pulled the starter, inspected it, teeth look good on flywheel and starter, reinstalled it and now it does nothing (no sound, no start). Thoughts?

    Does the starter need replaced? If so, what's everyone recommend (NAPA seems to be the theme when I searched). AMC 304 V8 is the engine.
    Last edited by Military Jeeper; 08-21-2010 at 17:11.
    NOTE: I DO NOT ENDORSE MOUNTAIN VALLEY CUSTOMS (MVC) FOR ANY 4x4 MODIFICATIONS - PM ME IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS WHY!

    (To those who wonder, I am NOT the club founder, this has been my screen name for over 10 yrs on all other forums and ironically this site is called "Military Jeepers"......contact miljeep for forum related questions)

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    Administrator korisu56's Avatar
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    Fairfax auto generally has better prices in your area in my experience. As far as the starter are the bolts tight? Just thinking of alignment.

  3. #3
    Non-MVC Supporter Military Jeeper's Avatar
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    Just updated, only 1 of the 2 bolts were installed. As for alignment.....expand please?
    NOTE: I DO NOT ENDORSE MOUNTAIN VALLEY CUSTOMS (MVC) FOR ANY 4x4 MODIFICATIONS - PM ME IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS WHY!

    (To those who wonder, I am NOT the club founder, this has been my screen name for over 10 yrs on all other forums and ironically this site is called "Military Jeepers"......contact miljeep for forum related questions)

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    darwinism at its best irish1371's Avatar
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    Check the solenoid make sure the starter is getting juice. then take it to an auto zone and get the starter tested for free before replacing it
    "Some people wonder their whole lives if they will ever make a difference. Marines don't have that problem." Pres. Ronald Reagan
    Army vs Marines = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2M7ckkxQLU

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    Senior Member jeepdreamer's Avatar
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    X2 w/ the irish...pull it out and have it checked (its free). While its out inspect the drive teeth on the starter and the ring gear on the flywheel. Also, it needs both bolts! One is not strong enough to hold it in place for long and it would allow movement that can cause the teeth to not mesh...hence the spinning/grinding noise!

  6. #6
    Non-MVC Supporter Military Jeeper's Avatar
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    UPDATE:

    So I replaced the starter today. Went to start it, nothing (just a single click). Took a set of jumper cables, hook it up to my other car and tried to start it (thinking the battery is low on voltage), nothing, single click. Took a cable and bypassed the solenoid straight from the battery to the starter and BAM, it worked. So now I just replaced the solenoid, still not working (single click).......WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Can anyone offer any advice???????
    NOTE: I DO NOT ENDORSE MOUNTAIN VALLEY CUSTOMS (MVC) FOR ANY 4x4 MODIFICATIONS - PM ME IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS WHY!

    (To those who wonder, I am NOT the club founder, this has been my screen name for over 10 yrs on all other forums and ironically this site is called "Military Jeepers"......contact miljeep for forum related questions)

  7. #7
    Senior Member SavageSun4x4's Avatar
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    27062010867.jpg05032009192.jpg28062010871.jpg27062010869.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Military Jeeper View Post
    UPDATE:

    So I replaced the starter today. Went to start it, nothing (just a single click). Took a set of jumper cables, hook it up to my other car and tried to start it (thinking the battery is low on voltage), nothing, single click. Took a cable and bypassed the solenoid straight from the battery to the starter and BAM, it worked. So now I just replaced the solenoid, still not working (single click).......WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Can anyone offer any advice???????
    What we know is it will start and you have replaced the solenoid and the starter yet it is now failing to start again.

    Starter alignment: There are some starters that use a shim set to properly align the starter to the block and flywheel. I do not if your engine starter combo requires this You make ask at the auto store if that is the case or have them check for any 'notes' in the look up table for your engine.

    In reading your posts I would have to conclude that you have an electrical issue. You local auto store can check your battery and give you the info on just what electrical shape its in. I am thinking its on the road to failure. Generally batteries (auto) do not suddenly completely fail. [ twice in my life I have had a battery completely and suddenly fail, so it does happen, once it was in a brand new battery less than 2 blocks from the store where I had just bought it]

    Older cars can run fine with a battery that is completely dead, they just don't start very easy.

    Lets assume the starter/solenoid are fine: Inspect your electrical connections from the alternator to the battery and the battery to the starter/solenoid. Clean using baking soda and water [1 heaping teaspoon to a large glass of water] pour on your connections till the bubbles stop, then clean well with a steel brush to expose bright metal. When was the last time the batter cables were changed out? Are they after-market or OEM? If they are not custom made and they are of an unknown age or over 5 years old then I would replace them. If you plan on keeping your rig for the long haul then I would have a custom set made up*.


    *I build a set or two and I use welding cable rather than auto grade. Welding cable carries more amps per size of cable than auto grade its also more flexible. I use 2 ga which is more than enough cable for nearly any application. I also use silver plated solid brass or copper connectors that are soldered in not clamped. If you take good care of your battery and connections these cables will last just about as long as you and your rig. You can make up a set yourself. Cable is available at most good welding supply shops and often they may be able to order the connectors you need. If you need any help, pix or anything let me know. You only need a propane torch to cook the connections.

    Take away: At this juncture have the battery checked for serviceability and inspect/clean and consider a new set of cabling for your rig.
    Don

    '15 Jeep Unlimited Rubicon Hard Rock...OLD SCHOOL 6 Spd Manual Trans
    17 Oaks Ranch Companies LLC

    www.savagesun4x4.com

  8. #8
    Non-MVC Supporter Military Jeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavageSun4x4 View Post
    What we know is it will start and you have replaced the solenoid and the starter yet it is now failing to start again.

    Starter alignment: There are some starters that use a shim set to properly align the starter to the block and flywheel. I do not if your engine starter combo requires this You make ask at the auto store if that is the case or have them check for any 'notes' in the look up table for your engine.
    Jeep didn't have any shims when I removed, guessing it doesn't need any.

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageSun4x4 View Post
    In reading your posts I would have to conclude that you have an electrical issue. You local auto store can check your battery and give you the info on just what electrical shape its in. I am thinking its on the road to failure. Generally batteries (auto) do not suddenly completely fail. [ twice in my life I have had a battery completely and suddenly fail, so it does happen, once it was in a brand new battery less than 2 blocks from the store where I had just bought it]
    I had jumper cables from my other car to the Jeep and it still wouldn't start so I don't think it's the battery. When I got it running, I removed the negative cable and it stayed running so I don't think it's the alternator (which is new as well).

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageSun4x4 View Post
    Older cars can run fine with a battery that is completely dead, they just don't start very easy.
    Battery is a Yellow Top Optima, maybe 5 yrs old....

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageSun4x4 View Post
    Lets assume the starter/solenoid are fine: Inspect your electrical connections from the alternator to the battery and the battery to the starter/solenoid. Clean using baking soda and water [1 heaping teaspoon to a large glass of water] pour on your connections till the bubbles stop, then clean well with a steel brush to expose bright metal. When was the last time the batter cables were changed out? Are they after-market or OEM? If they are not custom made and they are of an unknown age or over 5 years old then I would replace them. If you plan on keeping your rig for the long haul then I would have a custom set made up*.
    Cable are in pretty good shape (visually). Battery connects are new too, no corrosion visible.


    Quote Originally Posted by SavageSun4x4 View Post
    *I build a set or two and I use welding cable rather than auto grade. Welding cable carries more amps per size of cable than auto grade its also more flexible. I use 2 ga which is more than enough cable for nearly any application. I also use silver plated solid brass or copper connectors that are soldered in not clamped. If you take good care of your battery and connections these cables will last just about as long as you and your rig. You can make up a set yourself. Cable is available at most good welding supply shops and often they may be able to order the connectors you need. If you need any help, pix or anything let me know. You only need a propane torch to cook the connections.
    I'd hate to spend anymore money on cables if it's not gonna fix it. I've already dumped $75 bucks and 2 hrs into this (it's flipping hot outside today).

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageSun4x4 View Post
    Take away: At this juncture have the battery checked for serviceability and inspect/clean and consider a new set of cabling for your rig.
    The only option I guess now is to pull the battery and take it in for inspection. If the battery is good, I'll buy new cables but I don't think that's it either.

    On a side note, I'm running a DUI HEI..............does that matter?
    NOTE: I DO NOT ENDORSE MOUNTAIN VALLEY CUSTOMS (MVC) FOR ANY 4x4 MODIFICATIONS - PM ME IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS WHY!

    (To those who wonder, I am NOT the club founder, this has been my screen name for over 10 yrs on all other forums and ironically this site is called "Military Jeepers"......contact miljeep for forum related questions)

  9. #9
    Senior Member SavageSun4x4's Avatar
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    Thanks good info:

    I think #1 is too check out your battery. They can most likely put a stress test on it and test for max voltage. 5 years is getting old, maybe not completely shot, but certainly getting tired

    There is the possibility that the starter is binding on the fly wheel. This could be from running too long with only 1 bolt holding the starter in and the bolt hole wallowed out slightly. This where a shim comes in. You may need one to get the starter a bit further from the fly wheel so it does not bind.

    Intermittent ignition switch. If you have a cheap meter check to see if you are getting a complete circuit as the switch is being turned off/on.

    Ground causes many electrical issues. Many OEM setups ground to the engine block and too the frame. Got good ground???? No rust, bright shiny metal at all major ground points???

    Voltage regulator: Generally should be charging at about 14.1 - 14.8 V

    Battery voltage:
    voltchart1.gif
    Don

    '15 Jeep Unlimited Rubicon Hard Rock...OLD SCHOOL 6 Spd Manual Trans
    17 Oaks Ranch Companies LLC

    www.savagesun4x4.com

  10. #10
    Non-MVC Supporter Military Jeeper's Avatar
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    Advance Auto checked it..........now sure if it was volt or load tested but it showed 12.8 volts and showed 100% charge. As for the shim/spacer on the starter/flywheel, I don't think that's the case because if I bypass the solenoid and take power from the battery straight to the starter it starts right up. If there was a shim/spacer issue, logic would say that it wouldn't start up when bypassing.
    NOTE: I DO NOT ENDORSE MOUNTAIN VALLEY CUSTOMS (MVC) FOR ANY 4x4 MODIFICATIONS - PM ME IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS WHY!

    (To those who wonder, I am NOT the club founder, this has been my screen name for over 10 yrs on all other forums and ironically this site is called "Military Jeepers"......contact miljeep for forum related questions)

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